Saying "many/much" in Japanese

Sakura

There’s a tricky adjective 多い(おおい ooi) in Japanese which means “many/much”. Why tricky? It’s because you cannot place a noun following this adjective.

For example, you CANNOT say,
X 多い人がいます。Ooi hito ga imasu. (Intended meaning: There are many people.)

This is pretty strange because you can normally place a noun following an adjective like the following:

これは赤い本です。Kore wa akai hon desu. This is a red book.

So, 多い ooi is a special case where “ADJ + Noun” doesn’t work. However, you CAN use this adjective in the “Noun がga ADJ ですdesu” format.

Example:
人が多いです。Hito ga ooi desu. (There are many people.)
(literal translation: “People are many.”)

So, what should you do if you want to say “many NOUN” such as “many people”, “many books” in Japanese? One way is to use a different form of the expression, which is 多く ooku. Another way is to use an alternative expression たくさん takusan.

Example:
多くの人がいます。Ooku no hito ga imasu. (There are many people.)
たくさんの人がいます。Takusan no hito ga imasu. (There are many people.)
多くの本を読みました。Ooku no hon o yomimashita. (I read many books.)
たくさんの本を読みました。Takusan no hon o yomimashita. (I read many books.)

Notice that you have to use the particle の no between 多く ooku and 人 hito; likewise between たくさん takusan and 人 hito.

What’s the difference between “ooku no NOUN” and “takusan no NOUN”? Simply speaking, the former sounds formal whereas the latter sounds casual.

Okay, now, here’s another tricky thing. たくさん takusan can also be used as an adverb (i.e. “a lot”). In that case, you don’t need の no following たくさん takusan.

Examples:
たくさん食べます。Takusan tabemasu. (I eat a lot)
たくさん勉強しました。Takusan benkyooshimashita. (I studied a lot.)

It’s interesting how たくさんtakusan and the english “a lot” is similar. In English, you cannot say, “a lot books”. Instead, you say, “a lot of books”. In Japanese too, you cannot say たくさん本 takusan hon. Instead, you say, たくさんの本 takusan no hon. On the other hand, there is no problem saying “I eat a lot” or たくさん食べます Takusan tabemasu.

Just one final note on the adjective 多いooi for advanced students. There are cases where a noun appears to follow 多いooi. That’s when you have a relative clause.

Example:
人が多い町に行きました。Hito ga ooi machi ni ikimashita.
I went to a town where there are a lot of people.
間違えが多い書類を見ました。Machigae ga ooi shorui o mimashita.
I looked at a document which had a lot of mistakes.

You should be able to see why the above examples are fine. For example, the first one is not talking about “many towns”; rather, it’s talking about “many people”. So, even though the noun 町 machi (town) follows 多い ooi, the adjective does NOT modify 町 machi. Since there’s no modification relationship, there’s no problem putting the adjective and the noun next to each other.  

Roe

Arigato.

Now I know that OOKU and TAKUSAN mean 'many'  Takusan no hito ga imasu.  OR Ooku no hito ga imasu  (both mean: there are many people)  Yes?

I noticed two things:

a) Chinese and Japanese do have some definite similarities.  Two that I notice so far:  the # 3 is the same in both languages: san.  Also, the word for red is Hong in Chinese and Hon in Japanese.  I'm sure there are many others like this.  Yes?  I'd definitely love to know them since I am studying both languages, and if I can learn one word for two, that'd be great, haha

b) The word 'hito' means person yes?  So onna no hito simply means 'female plus person' and otoko no hito simply means 'male plus person'  Correct?

Thanks!

-Monroe

Sakura

Roe-san konnichiwa.

Thanks for your comments and questions!

Yes, both

Takusan no hito ga imasu.

and

Ooku no hito ga imasu.

mean "There are many people".

However, the former sounds casual whereas the latter sounds formal.

Re: a)

Hon means "book" in Japanese. I think you just misspoke in the above, right?

Anyways, yes, it's true that some Japanese words and Chinese words overlap. However, the pronunciation or intonation is usually very different and you want to pay special attention to that. For example, listen to the audio for "#3" in both Japanese and Chinese. You should be able to notice how "san" is pronounced differently. 

Re: b)

One of the functions of the particle no is to connect two nouns. So if you want to connect onna and hito, you need no in between. You can take no as a connecting device. 

onna = female

hito = person

onna no hito = female person, which is, in a word, "woman"

As you know, depending on a context, "A no B" can also be "A's B"; i.e. possessive.

e.g.

Sumisu-san no hon = "Mr. Smith's book" (but not "Mr. Smith book")

Hope this helps!

AmiM

Shucks, I wish I had read this before our lesson today!  Now I can practice using both

Christopher

Did you do the first eTutoring session? How did you do with:

wa... ga... imasu

wa... wa... imasu ka

wa... wa... imasen

I've done the first Japanese eTutor session and that always give me a hard time! Not to mention keeping straight the different family terms, whether it's your own family or someone else's! Thankfully, Sakura is very patient!

Sakura

Hi AmiM san!

Yes, "takusan" is a very useful expression. As I mentioned during our session, when you use this expression, keep in mind that a particle does not follow it - this is just like how a particle does not follow a counter. Instead, a particle follows the noun. Please see the examples below.

私は本がたくさんあります。Watashi wa hon ga takusan arimasu. 

I have many books.

私は本が10冊あります。Watashi wa hon ga jussatsu arimasu.

I have ten books.

The word order is in fact pretty flexible. So the following examples are also fine.

私はたくさん本があります。Watashi wa takusan hon ga arimasu.

I have many books.

私は10冊本があります。 Watashi wa jussatsu hon ga arimasu.

I have ten books.

Sakura

Hi Chris!

When you are new to the Japanese language, I believe it is a good practice to follow the simplified rule, "Use wa for negative sentences and questions". 

Thus, you get the pattern you mentioned; 

i.e.

...wa...ga imasu

...wa...wa imasu ka

...wa...wa imasen

However, it's good to know that this pattern is NOT something absolute. In fact, any of the following is not ungrammatical. 

...wa...wa imasu

...wa...ga imasu ka

...wa...ga imasen

Or even, 

...ga...ga imasu

....ga...wa imasen

Basically, your choice of ga/wa has an pragmatic effect. Depending on the context, one combination is more appropriate than the other.

However, I think you want to be pretty advanced to start to care about such subtle pragmatic effects. If you're interested, I can write about different pragmatic effects of using wa and ga. It might become quite a long essay, but I will try my best to make it as concise as possible! (^-^)

Christopher

I'm having flashbacks to certain Semantics seminars with the double wa and the double ga!

I'll stick to the simple stuff for now! Arigatoo!

Sakura

There you go! (^-^)

I'd love to talk about some pragmatic differences between "wa" and "ga" in this forum soon, so stay tuned!  

Christopher

That would make a great post in the Linguists' Corner as well.

AmiM

@ Christopher - 

I'm not totally new to Japanese - I need refreshing on much of it, though!  Which is why I'm beginning at the beginning.  I don't want to assume I remember everything.  It is hard to get all the particles straight!

@Sakura - I remember my sensei mentioning that as well.  When I took classes in HS and college, they did not have a rule regarding the use of wa/ga - it was context.  Which made it hard to guess on what was/was not acceptable on tests, haha.  I like that simple rule to begin with, until context is better understood.  

Also, that would be a great post!  I look forward to it

improvisinglife

Thanks for all your help! This has really helped!

Now, if you wanted to say, "I read a lot of books," you would say, "Watashi wa hon no takusan yomimasu." Right?

Thanks for your help!

Sakura

Yes, you are right about the use of takusan!
However, instead of the particle no, use the particle o, which is the direct object marker. 

Watashi wa hon o takusan yomimasu.